Hey, I just discovered this flow chart from a comment on a Youtube video lol. I'm a Christian, I just want to say a few things on this topic as I find this article quite interesting. I 100% agree that Christians always run to 'you just gotta have faith', I totally get that. A proper definition of faith is required. Now this is where I start to disagree. Hebrews 11:1 as you have noted on the chart gives a definition of faith. "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. ". You have listed this as defining faith as hope but i disagree. The verse clearly states that faith is not hope, but [confidence] in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. I see this as saying that to have faith is effectively to trust. Not trust just for the sake of it, that would be a blind faith. We trust our family because we have good reason to do so. In the same way Christians trust God because we have good reason to do so. Now I completely understand that you would probably think the Christians don't have good reasons to trust God. What I'm getting at here is that the definition of faith, is trust. Faith (or trust) is taking a step into the unknown, supported by evidence. As the verse says, it is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we don't know. How can we have such confidence? Because of prior evidence. Say your really smart friend has in the past been able to help you ace your maths exams. One day you are studying for yet another math exam when you find a particularly challenging question. Based on the evidence of your friend being able to help you with maths in the past, you can have have confidence that he will be able to help you now. You can trust that your friend will be able to help. You can have faith (based on the Hebrews 11:1 definition) that your friend will be able to help. Many Christians evidently do not know evidence for their beliefs, but this does not mean that there isn't any. If you believe that the earth is round but don't have evidence for it yourself, it doesn't make the earth any less round. The fact is that there is evidence that the earth is flat. It is round regardless of whether someone believes it is or not. Again I'm not trying to argue that Christianity is true here. All I'm doing is saying that the bible tells us what faith is. It is trust. It is the ability to rely on prior evidence for future events where the outcome is unknown. Now for the flowchart I see that you have already tried trust with it. But upon reflection of what I mentioned here maybe you can see that Hebrews 11:1 provides a definition of faith that indeed does solve this flowchart. As I explained, faith = trust. So lets run the 'trust' through the flowchart based of what I have been saying so far. 1. Clearly define your definition of Faith : Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. We can have the confidence due to prior evidence. 2. Does this definition work as evidence for your beliefs: Considering that this definition relies upon evidence to work I would say yes. 3. Would you accept this definition as evidence for beliefs held by others: Absolutely. With this definition the evidence is now the focus. Therefore the evidence for all beliefs that people hold should be put to the test. If it holds up then that belief is true, if not then it is false. We can see that based on that it is not logically coherent to say as the final step does, 'You accept all beliefs claimed by faith as true - valid and justified like your own'. In fact the other part (when you answer no to a question) which says, 'It would be dishonest to accept this definition of faith as a defence for your position. Additional evidence is required.' is proving this point exactly. Faith is only faith when there is evidence. The reason we can have faith is because of prior evidence. For Christianity specifically I would give the example of the death and resurrection of Jesus. If the evidence suggests beyond a reasonable doubt that Jesus really did rise back to life, then based on that evidence Christians can have faith, they put their trust in anything that Jesus said. Think about that. If there was evidence that someone had risen from the death. That would make them an extremely reliable source for other information. Again of course you might say that there is no evidence that Jesus rose from the dead. I'm not trying to argue that right now. All I'm suggesting is that the definition of faith I have provided (the biblical definition as per Hebrews 11:1) is a sufficient definition for your challenge (the flowchart). Sorry for such a long message but this stuff is fascinating to me. Feel free to disagree with what I have said, but the problem shouldn't be that you disagree, but why you disagree. The same as what I have been talking about here. Faith is only relevant when supported by prior evidence. To find the truth in anything we should look at the evidence. And if the specific evidence appears to be lacking, is the prior evidence strong enough to cover? Again if someone really did rise from the dead, that gives you every logical reason to trust what they say at least beyond a reasonable doubt. None can ever be certain of anything. Thanks for reading this.
Hey, I just discovered this flow chart from a comment on a Youtube video lol. I'm a Christian, I just want to say a few things on this topic as I find this article quite interesting. I 100% agree that Christians always run to 'you just gotta have faith', I totally get that. A proper definition of faith is required. Now this is where I start to disagree. Hebrews 11:1 as you have noted on the chart gives a definition of faith. "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. ". You have listed this as defining faith as hope but i disagree. The verse clearly states that faith is not hope, but [confidence] in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. I see this as saying that to have faith is effectively to trust. Not trust just for the sake of it, that would be a blind faith. We trust our family because we have good reason to do so. In the same way Christians trust God because we have good reason to do so. Now I completely understand that you would probably think the Christians don't have good reasons to trust God. What I'm getting at here is that the definition of faith, is trust. Faith (or trust) is taking a step into the unknown, supported by evidence. As the verse says, it is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we don't know. How can we have such confidence? Because of prior evidence. Say your really smart friend has in the past been able to help you ace your maths exams. One day you are studying for yet another math exam when you find a particularly challenging question. Based on the evidence of your friend being able to help you with maths in the past, you can have have confidence that he will be able to help you now. You can trust that your friend will be able to help. You can have faith (based on the Hebrews 11:1 definition) that your friend will be able to help. Many Christians evidently do not know evidence for their beliefs, but this does not mean that there isn't any. If you believe that the earth is round but don't have evidence for it yourself, it doesn't make the earth any less round. The fact is that there is evidence that the earth is flat. It is round regardless of whether someone believes it is or not. Again I'm not trying to argue that Christianity is true here. All I'm doing is saying that the bible tells us what faith is. It is trust. It is the ability to rely on prior evidence for future events where the outcome is unknown. Now for the flowchart I see that you have already tried trust with it. But upon reflection of what I mentioned here maybe you can see that Hebrews 11:1 provides a definition of faith that indeed does solve this flowchart. As I explained, faith = trust. So lets run the 'trust' through the flowchart based of what I have been saying so far. 1. Clearly define your definition of Faith : Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. We can have the confidence due to prior evidence. 2. Does this definition work as evidence for your beliefs: Considering that this definition relies upon evidence to work I would say yes. 3. Would you accept this definition as evidence for beliefs held by others: Absolutely. With this definition the evidence is now the focus. Therefore the evidence for all beliefs that people hold should be put to the test. If it holds up then that belief is true, if not then it is false. We can see that based on that it is not logically coherent to say as the final step does, 'You accept all beliefs claimed by faith as true - valid and justified like your own'. In fact the other part (when you answer no to a question) which says, 'It would be dishonest to accept this definition of faith as a defence for your position. Additional evidence is required.' is proving this point exactly. Faith is only faith when there is evidence. The reason we can have faith is because of prior evidence. For Christianity specifically I would give the example of the death and resurrection of Jesus. If the evidence suggests beyond a reasonable doubt that Jesus really did rise back to life, then based on that evidence Christians can have faith, they put their trust in anything that Jesus said. Think about that. If there was evidence that someone had risen from the death. That would make them an extremely reliable source for other information. Again of course you might say that there is no evidence that Jesus rose from the dead. I'm not trying to argue that right now. All I'm suggesting is that the definition of faith I have provided (the biblical definition as per Hebrews 11:1) is a sufficient definition for your challenge (the flowchart). Sorry for such a long message but this stuff is fascinating to me. Feel free to disagree with what I have said, but the problem shouldn't be that you disagree, but why you disagree. The same as what I have been talking about here. Faith is only relevant when supported by prior evidence. To find the truth in anything we should look at the evidence. And if the specific evidence appears to be lacking, is the prior evidence strong enough to cover? Again if someone really did rise from the dead, that gives you every logical reason to trust what they say at least beyond a reasonable doubt. None can ever be certain of anything. Thanks for reading this.
In Mormonism, the Book of Mormon is true, or you didn’t pray right. your flow chart reminded me of something similar I’ve seen online haha
Mormons teach kids from a very young age to say “I know the church is true”
Mormonism teaches you that positive feelings are an answer from god…